no bottom end power - Polaris Riders


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Old 06-26-2006, 12:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default no bottom end power

Before I go and spend a bunch more money doing a trial and error routine, I thought Id ask yall bout my bottom end power loss. I've put a race mod kit on, and taller sprockets. like my sig says. I've always rode one long flat high speed roads with no inclines. But recently I've been riding in an area with some hills, and squishy muddy areas too. (I hate MUD) I've approached 20 ft hills and can only make it like 3/4 of the way, and she just doesn't take the gas, bog bog bog. So is my sprockets (15/30 now), my air twin air getting dirty, fat jets, or all of the above?
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---99 scrambler 400--- HPD race mod kit: .040 over stock bore. (408 cc) 39 Pwk keihen carb,(185 Main, clip at top) modded air box, V Force reeds, trail mod port job, Wiseco forged piston, 12:1 HPD head, girdle kit, race mod pipe, stock silencer, EGT, super sport clutch buttons, violet spring, blue primary, and 10/56 weights, custom short shifter, Trail Flywheel. 12/30 gearing. Converted to 2 wheel drive with polished trailblazer spindles. Controling fan with 4x4 switch. Two 20 fin inline coolers. water wetter. MSR high bars, pro grips. Maxxis razr (22"), and front pros
"Thank God I work in a metal shop, sure makes installing new shxt easy."
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Old 06-26-2006, 01:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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i would blame the sprockets...go to like a 38 rear and try it, the 30 is more like a absolute top speed sprocket, the 15 is is too, go bigger on back and smaller in the front
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Old 06-26-2006, 04:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Man that is some freaky tall gearing! I'd definately do like tooladdict said and go lower gearing first.Imho that is too tall of gearing. Why are you geared so tall? Just curious? Are you doing 1/4 mile drags? I personally think that the stock gearing is a good all around ratio. You can go up one tooth in the front for more top end but I never liked it.
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2001 Scrambler. RcR Race Ported, Wiseco .040, Lightened Flywheel,Keihin 39 Pwk With Clamp On K&N, Hot Seat 12:1 Cool Head, Aaen Girdle Kit, HPD Case Saver, CPI In-Frame Drag Pipe, Rad Valve, HPD Clutching Mine Lightened up quite a bit 21X12X8 10 paddle extreme haulers. (MINE)

2001 Scrambler. Hpd Trail Pipe w/FmF silencer, Trail Ported, Wiseco .020 ,Machined Head, Gutted Air Box w/ K&N, Rad Valve, AC Pro Peg nerfs,22x11x10 8 paddle haulers. (WIFES)
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Old 06-26-2006, 06:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I dont drag, or anything. I tried stock sprockets but cant keep it under control with my tires. She wants to go sideways. I want to go around 85 mph too. That is what my buddies TLD runs. Im sure you guys are right though. I started with the stock front, and 30 rear, and me and the predator are halariously neck and neck all the way up to top speed. Now with the back ordered 15 tooth front I feel like i've lost more than gained. Im gonna buy his wheels and tires, and find a pair of stock predator hubs. they are razr 2 rears, and the stock razr fronts. In addition I'll go back down on the gearing. I think I need to try going back to the stock air box too, because whenever I skip over a puddle the motor will bog for a second, then wake up. Also my "muffler" has no back pressure. its a homemade rig. 3.5" stainless tubing. I think this is causing high temps. I have a 195 Main because I cant let the EGT go over 1300 degrees or it will blow again. I cant from a dead stop... fram the throttle 100 percent cause she bogs, I have to gradually feed it to her, and around 3/4 she lights right up. Im also scratching my head about my clutch. seemes like it's less agressive after maybe 20 hrs of ride time. My belt maybe? please let me know whats up. Not meaning to write a book, but I want a banshee killer! Ha ha
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---99 scrambler 400--- HPD race mod kit: .040 over stock bore. (408 cc) 39 Pwk keihen carb,(185 Main, clip at top) modded air box, V Force reeds, trail mod port job, Wiseco forged piston, 12:1 HPD head, girdle kit, race mod pipe, stock silencer, EGT, super sport clutch buttons, violet spring, blue primary, and 10/56 weights, custom short shifter, Trail Flywheel. 12/30 gearing. Converted to 2 wheel drive with polished trailblazer spindles. Controling fan with 4x4 switch. Two 20 fin inline coolers. water wetter. MSR high bars, pro grips. Maxxis razr (22"), and front pros
"Thank God I work in a metal shop, sure makes installing new shxt easy."
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Old 06-26-2006, 07:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well my set up is nowhere near like yours and don't think I can really help you that much cause you want I don't know of many peeps that have...you should be able to hang with him no problem. I would go with a 13/30 and see how it goes. Sounds to me like you are jetted way fat on top too. Can you go down on the main without the egt going to high?There are a lot more "race mod" guys on gen3 I told you about. Try there also.
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2001 Scrambler. RcR Race Ported, Wiseco .040, Lightened Flywheel,Keihin 39 Pwk With Clamp On K&N, Hot Seat 12:1 Cool Head, Aaen Girdle Kit, HPD Case Saver, CPI In-Frame Drag Pipe, Rad Valve, HPD Clutching Mine Lightened up quite a bit 21X12X8 10 paddle extreme haulers. (MINE)

2001 Scrambler. Hpd Trail Pipe w/FmF silencer, Trail Ported, Wiseco .020 ,Machined Head, Gutted Air Box w/ K&N, Rad Valve, AC Pro Peg nerfs,22x11x10 8 paddle haulers. (WIFES)
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Old 06-27-2006, 12:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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nothing against you man...you got an automatic...you won't be able to race most of the souped up shees and preddys with an automatic without losing something, not to with your gearing, it probably takes forever to get to top speed, my trailblazer had the stock gearing, 13/38, with stock pipe, 140 jet, dalton black and white clutch spring and a uni air filter with the air box mod, i raced a kawasaki lakota (300) and killed him, it was a 1/2 mile race i won, but we kept going and finally he got 5th gear...he slowly passed, i mean SLOWLY
on the tires...i put super swamper swamplites on mine, it killed me, i lost all the top end, i could only hit 45, but in the mud it would dominate, i would reccomend sticking to maybe 4 ply razrs and aluminum rims, the tires make a big difference
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Old 06-27-2006, 02:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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A modded Trailblazer and 400 aren't even in the same league. I can hang with most and beat quite a few modded banshees(the heavily ported and mil banshees no way) and have been beat by only one heavily modded Pred and that was really to close to call. You do lose a lot thru the clutch I agree but his gearing is keeping him out of the powerband where his motor makes the most power IMO. And his clutching may be causing this as well. You may also need to check your float level if you are hitting bumps and it's causing it to stall.
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2001 Scrambler. RcR Race Ported, Wiseco .040, Lightened Flywheel,Keihin 39 Pwk With Clamp On K&N, Hot Seat 12:1 Cool Head, Aaen Girdle Kit, HPD Case Saver, CPI In-Frame Drag Pipe, Rad Valve, HPD Clutching Mine Lightened up quite a bit 21X12X8 10 paddle extreme haulers. (MINE)

2001 Scrambler. Hpd Trail Pipe w/FmF silencer, Trail Ported, Wiseco .020 ,Machined Head, Gutted Air Box w/ K&N, Rad Valve, AC Pro Peg nerfs,22x11x10 8 paddle haulers. (WIFES)
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Old 06-27-2006, 08:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I put a 192 main in, thats one size smaller. and I can watch the temps slowly climb at full throttle I'll let it hit 1300, and I let off. I think I need a real freakin muffler maybe? I should try the stock muffler for shxts and giggles. Im so confused... It bogs off the line, and wakes up later on. If I jet smaller.... Im scared of another meltdown. With a clean twin air shes better, but once it gets dirty it almost doesn't want to run. Also recently it doesn't continue to idle after like 10 seconds it cuts out, and needs choke to restart. This has never been a problem for me. Is there such a thing as oiling to lightly on the filter? I've considered not oiling it. Maybe I should go back to stock airbox unless I plan on drag racing.
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---99 scrambler 400--- HPD race mod kit: .040 over stock bore. (408 cc) 39 Pwk keihen carb,(185 Main, clip at top) modded air box, V Force reeds, trail mod port job, Wiseco forged piston, 12:1 HPD head, girdle kit, race mod pipe, stock silencer, EGT, super sport clutch buttons, violet spring, blue primary, and 10/56 weights, custom short shifter, Trail Flywheel. 12/30 gearing. Converted to 2 wheel drive with polished trailblazer spindles. Controling fan with 4x4 switch. Two 20 fin inline coolers. water wetter. MSR high bars, pro grips. Maxxis razr (22"), and front pros
"Thank God I work in a metal shop, sure makes installing new shxt easy."
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Sounds like you may have some clutching issues too. Have you ever had the primary clutch rebuilt? The bogging could be a worn primary clutch sheave.

I'd try the air filter without oil on a road with little dirt and see if that is the problem...I kinda doubt it though. What pilot jet are you running? Sounds like you may need to adjust your air/fuel mixture screw to get it to idle right. Have you replaced the plug lately?
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2001 Scrambler. RcR Race Ported, Wiseco .040, Lightened Flywheel,Keihin 39 Pwk With Clamp On K&N, Hot Seat 12:1 Cool Head, Aaen Girdle Kit, HPD Case Saver, CPI In-Frame Drag Pipe, Rad Valve, HPD Clutching Mine Lightened up quite a bit 21X12X8 10 paddle extreme haulers. (MINE)

2001 Scrambler. Hpd Trail Pipe w/FmF silencer, Trail Ported, Wiseco .020 ,Machined Head, Gutted Air Box w/ K&N, Rad Valve, AC Pro Peg nerfs,22x11x10 8 paddle haulers. (WIFES)
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Old 06-28-2006, 12:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thats a major clutching problem.

You can do whatever you want to that motor, but if you don't clutch for every mod, you aren't gaining and performance because the clutching is Inaccurate and inefficient. Clutching is a VERY VERY maticulous adjustment and has many variables.
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